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"The Current of Love" #2 of 10
"Filtering out love and connection--
getting past all our filters, symbols and programs.
The current of intentionality that we create with our thought
forms."
Being in touch with the organism; orgasmic sensibility;
reframing our ideations; honing attention to what serves."
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Troimille (yours truly)
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Troimille: Good evening, dear friends. Are we having a topic tonight?
Alisnntrnt: lol, you are the topic Barry
Troimille: Well, we could talk about the homework while other people are finding their way over here...
Alisnntrnt: sounds good
GAY GOOEN: homework?
Honorble4U: ought ooooo
Troimille: Did any of you go around "tasting" your world?
Alisnntrnt: I did Barry
Honorble4U: that is not called homework in my life, lol
Alisnntrnt: lol, that's what I said last week Honor!
Honorble4U: What did you taste Ali?
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, how was it for you?
Alisnntrnt: great
Alisnntrnt: kept me in the moment
GAY GOOEN: Hmm...I guess I tasted the jacket of the man in front of me on
the moving floor at O'Hare.
Alisnntrnt: lol
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, that's how it starts-- at O'Hare... :)
Honorble4U: I doubt that is all you tasted
Alisnntrnt: lol
GAY GOOEN: (grin)...Now Honor.
Honorble4U: :)
Troimille: Honorble4U, what about you? Have you seen your world with
"beginner eyes"?
Honorble4U: oh yes
GAY GOOEN: What a lovely way to put it...
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, I think that was from Al Huang.
Honorble4U: Letting energy go through me, and feeling colors, is that what
you mean Barry?
Troimille: Honorble4U, exactly right-- like an organism instead of an acculturated person.
Honorble4U: esactly
Honorble4U: can't spell though
Troimille: How about somebody who hasn't spoken yet?
Honorble4U: need some healing spelling energy, :)
Honorble4U: Vic, you have tasted Winter, I know you have..
Troimille: Is anybody here new to Buddhist/Tantra practices?
Tafc323: Yes! I have indeed tasted Winter
Troimille: Anybody have any questions from last time before we get started tonight?
Troimille: Welcome, Esnshl4me-- we've just been "going around the room" so
far...
Troimille: Ok, then I shall begin-- I'll scroll out a couple of paragraphs, and then we can talk about it...
Esnshl4me: thanks
Troimille: I am glad to see you all! I'd like to start by focusing a little of my own
Troimille: biography on the subject at hand: How we originally did know love and
Troimille: connection, why and how we shut it down, how we conjured up a life of "faking it" to avoid intimacy,
Troimille: how we made it everyone else's responsibility to make us feel "worthy"
Troimille: and "loved," and why we eventually run into a wall-that wall being the
Troimille: conflict between the house of cards we've built our lives on, and the sacred dream of our hearts.
Troimille: I remember, as a child, "knowing" what kind of world I wanted to live in,
Troimille: and being horrified at all the pain and misery I saw around me and coming at me.
Troimille: This dichotomy was so intense for me that I built a kind of turtle shell to
Troimille: crawl into, to try to feel safe and to stop feeling the impact of the lying
Troimille: and cruelty I was perceiving "around" me.
Troimille: This shell was so "effective" that my teachers sent me to get my
Troimille: hearing checked, as I was no longer answering to my name.
Troimille: I went through six years of therapy at that time, which helped some, but
Troimille: I became a drifter in college and, afterwards, a drifter in my "career." I
Troimille: was not in touch with my feelings, so I couldn't set an aim for myself in life.
Troimille: But what about you? Do you feel that you have somehow made it this far
Troimille: without cutting yourself off from your core feelings? Or do you justify
Troimille: yourself that you need to "take care of yourself", make sure you don't get
Troimille: hurt (again), or that you have to compete in order to "survive"?
Troimille: Who do you know that is in touch with their feelings? Is it healthy for them?
Troimille: Why or why not? What would it mean to be truly innocent? Why would
Troimille: you want that?
Troimille: Ok, do you have all that? Questions? Comments!
GAY GOOEN: I can start...cutting myself off from core feelings would be like dying...
GAY GOOEN: before I was ready.
Troimille: But haven't we all done that already?
GAY GOOEN: No. I haven't done that.
GAY GOOEN: It is sometimes a greater effort to be vulnerable than not to be, but mostly, I chose it.
Honorble4U: Yes, I have died a million times, each time I have chosen to close down.
Troimille: Gay, then is everything already open to you? Do you know your true Self?
GAY GOOEN: I think I am intimate with it, Barry. ...and it has taken a life time.
Troimille: Welcome, SoulMan and Tanajtras-- we just started a few minutes ago...
Tanajtras: Kewl! Thanks
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, I guess I am asking, is there still more you wish for yourself, from yourself?
SoulMan911: good evening Barry..and everyone ...
GAY GOOEN: always...and in ways it is a choice...to go for more...or to be quiet and just BE...
Troimille: How about the rest of you? Lightbr8, is there anything that you would like to
Troimille: open in yourself?
Lightbr8: Yes...my heart
Troimille: Lightbr8, maybe your heart already *is* open... how are we disconnected?
Lightbr8: I have closed it for protection of not being hurt once again
Troimille: I can tell if I am yearning for something, then that wish is open in my heart,
Troimille: but I just don't have the connection to it.
Troimille: We'll go into these disconnections more, in a minute.
Lightbr8: Not sure I even yearn any more....have separated that much
Troimille: Lightbr8, then why can I feel your yearning right thru my screen?
SoulMan911: I find that once you make the connection to your self ...you have opened your heart soul and mind
Lightbr8: Are you sure???...My wall is very strong
Honorble4U: I feel a lot of healing in here. This is truly wonderful
Alisnntrnt: agreed Honor
Troimille: SoulMan911, for me it wasn't _once_ -- it's been hundreds of times-- then I
Troimille: shut down again, but not all the way, not as far. Little by little, we pry
Troimille: ourselves loose from our chains and dungeons-- what is awaitiing us?
Troimille: Honorble4U, I feel it too-- you are all wonderful!
Honorble4U: You have to accept with faith that what is ahead is certain to be better than what has been left behind
Troimille: Welcome, Mrgrta4u-- you didn't miss too much. We're discussing whether
Troimille: there is any hope for us...
Troimille: Honorble4U, for sure! I made about six decisions not to suicide, along the way.
Troimille: Anyone else before I continue?
Esnshl4me: just that you are singing my song, Troi
Troimille: : ::::::: blushes with Esns's comment ::::::::::
SoulMan911: always hope ...and faith ...and once you smell and taste all around you ,..you see..
Troimille: SoulMan911, it doesn't get easier, though, does it-- but the rewards are so lovely...
Troimille: Ok, continuing...
Troimille: Now, can you remember how you shut down, little by little, and sometimes
Troimille: a lot at once? As an empath, everything impacted me a lot in the first
Troimille: place, but in my family, it was not permitted for us to express what we were
Troimille: feeling, nor even think the "wrong" thoughts!
SoulMan911: not easy , but take it as bitter with the sweet
Troimille: Even in the best of families and circumstances, wasn't everything polarized
Troimille: into "acceptable" and "unacceptable", didn't we have guilt trips laid on us
Troimille: like "You're killing your mother" or "I've slaved all day for you" (so therefore,
Troimille: whatever you were _going_ to express to me will be unacceptable)
Troimille: "but now, what is it you were going to tell me?" Did you ever hear "Mommy
Troimille: or daddy is doing this because s/he loves you" or "it hurts me more than it
Troimille: hurts you"?
Troimille: Then we got peer pressure to fit into assigned roles and express only what
Troimille: fit within the group's mould; this includes cultural group, family "values" and
Troimille: even local neighborhood "morality", right?
GAY GOOEN: Absolutely...
Troimille: tell me, friends-- how did any of us escape from all that?
Lightbr8: Sure enough
GAY GOOEN: Maybe we didn't escape it...but maybe we worked through it...
Tafc323: Why "escape" it? Why not use it as a lesson?
Tafc323: The soul builds on many things!
Troimille: Tafc323, well, for sure-- that's all that's kept me going, to find meaning in it all,
Troimille: and then beauty...
SoulMan911: all cliches to restore control ..
Esnshl4me: <---escaped in books, fantasy>
GAY GOOEN: I "split"...
Troimille: SoulMan911, isn't it amazing how even bright people no longer realize that all
Troimille: their "thoughts" are cliches?
Troimille: Esnshl4me, me too, big time!
GAY GOOEN: Language is limiting, Troi.
SoulMan911: all what we are taught
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, it can be, but the Higher Astrals and Others have been teaching us
Troimille: some new Language-- breathtaking!
SoulMan911: yes ..a better way
GAY GOOEN: yes...but I'm talking communication on the Earth plane... among each other...between each other...
Troimille: Welcome, LisasubNH (
Troimille: trapped, and then how we have emerged.
GAY GOOEN: emotional intelligence, I call it.
SoulMan911: spiritual communication
LisasubNH: Hello Troimille, everyone NH=
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, yes-- ever notice how little you have to say to a friend for them to
Troimille: understand you, and for some strangers, no amount of words will do it? What's
Troimille: underneath our words?
Lightbr8: Communicating energy
Troimille: Lightbr8, you got that right! Have a cigar. But what the heck is it?
GAY GOOEN: Troi...IT is communion.
Lightbr8: It is the energy that you send and receive from others Much truer than words
Troimille: Lightbr8, I have been wondering if it is the dance of Being, "i" into "you" into
Troimille: "them" back to "i"...?
Lightbr8: I like that...good way to put it
Troimille: So that if I flow with the dance, I have to understand you!
Lightbr8: Not sure you have to understand me...just feel me
Troimille: (Just finished reading "The Dancing Wu Li Masters")
GAY GOOEN: yes, yes...makes perfect sense...
Troimille: Lightbr8, wouldn't you like to be understood and fully appreciated? I know I would!
Lightbr8: If you "feel " me...then the understanding is already there
Troimille: Lightbr8, instantaneously, isn't it?
Lightbr8: To answer you question...yes...but if you can feel my energy...then you do understand me
Troimille: Ok, makes sense. Anybody else before I go on?
Lightbr8: LOL...sorry...I'm using my voice I never had as a child
Troimille: Lightbr8, and I am sorry too, for presuming to "teach" you, since Love is what I
Troimille: am learning (to be).
Lightbr8: Yes...I think we all are...
Troimille: Ok, ready for more?
Troimille: So then, what is it that we have left? For some people, nothing! That's why
Troimille: honor students throw themselves off the bridge the minute they don't "measure up".
Troimille: Why is it that artists, poets and musicians are expected to be at least a little
Troimille: crazy or eccentric? We are told "Just be yourself", but to many people, that
Troimille: means a few drinks to "get relaxed"-- but then the "just themselves" that
Troimille: emerges is obnoxious or even violent!
Troimille: What would _you_ have left if you were suddenly stripped of your social
Troimille: framework, or the handy categories of "thought" that you've developed your
Troimille: whole life? Would we lose control?
Troimille: Would we reveal how terrified, violent and ashamed we all are? Is that really
Troimille: necessary, to lose all our comfort and stability, in order to really love and
Troimille: communicate with each other? In order to know ourselves?
Troimille: Why can't we have what we want without really changing? Didn't God make us
Troimille: perfect? Why doesn't _everyone else_ have to change, instead?
Troimille: Ready to hear from also those who have not yet shared...
Troimille: Welcome, BHab8-- you'll get the hang of where we are easily enough...
BHab8: thanks
Troimille: Hi, KenOakHill-- great to see you. See if you can catch on to where we are in
Troimille: this discussion-- ask any questions you'd like...
GAY GOOEN: Barry...Do you think that if God makes us "perfect" -- we still don't suffer?
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, does God "suffer"? Can we "suffer" differently than we've been doing?
GAY GOOEN: I'm asking about suffering on Earth...I find that most people create situations
GAY GOOEN: in which they "suffer"... and they seem to choose it... want to be in pain, many of them.
GAY GOOEN: It confuses me...I don't understand it because I can't imagine choosing to suffer.
SoulMan911: The closer you get to self the less you suffer...the more you understand
GAY GOOEN: But I see it all around.
Troimille: Actually, we all suffer like dogs instead of humans. How could a Human "suffer"
Troimille: consciously, with joy and devotion and gratitude?
GAY GOOEN: So if you're asking me, "Does God Suffer"...the answer is that the part of us that IS God...must.
GAY GOOEN: And that's not the joy filled part of us. But the part of us that wants to live in the mundane.
Troimille: In my view, God is the moment of suffering All at once, in Eternity, with no
Troimille: resistance at all.
GAY GOOEN: yes...makes sense.
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, can we take joy in the mundane? Look at these wonderful mystics
Troimille: who gained enlightenment while scrubbing scullery or picking weeds...
Lightbr8: Isn't it all a matter of perception??
GAY GOOEN: Yep. In my discipline we call it "Seva"...the work through which we see God.
Esnshl4me: joy ... takes it out of the mundane
Troimille: I think that this is how we serve God-- by experiencing all these levels and
Troimille: intricacies with delight. Yes, Seva.
Honorble4U: And that is how we serve each other as well
Troimille: Then what in us has any wish to endure without joy?
Lightbr8: Those old messages of unworthiness
GAY GOOEN: The part of us that disconnects from self..and lives in the mundane.
Troimille: Honorble4U, serve and honor and cherish and take delight in one another, eh?
Honorble4U: exactly
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, from my self-study, such "parts" do not even truly exist-- when I
Troimille: remove artificial separation, every "part" of me dances with joy.
Honorble4U: The path to ecstasy
SoulMan911: we have to understand the mundane to learn how to serve others in joy
GAY GOOEN: That is a state when all of our "aspects" come together...we are, when we live in
GAY GOOEN: mind, quite separated, I believe.
Troimille: ... and yet I am still doing the dance of separation, complete with Anxiety
Troimille: Disorder-- but I don't even mind anymore!
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, exactly!
GAY GOOEN: So...there IS hope...for all of us.
GAY GOOEN: It's definitely an altered state...the coming together of all of us...
GAY GOOEN: I think it is the reconnect with God.
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, if we *wish*, then we have the capacity for our wish, right?
GAY GOOEN: (grin)...I'm not willing to answer that so easily, Troi. I don't know, really.
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, I think it is *separation* which is the altered state, IMHO.
GAY GOOEN: I know about "intention"...and "purpose"...and "focus"...
GAY GOOEN: but I'm still in my own process...and so I haven't made decisions about that yet.
GAY GOOEN: ...and when I "arrive", it won't matter, will it?
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, why not "arrive" here/now where you always *are*? What are we waiting for?
GAY GOOEN: Someone said, "Wherever you go, there you are." ...old Buddhist saying...
Troimille: Welcome, SoCurious-- we're discussing why we think we are separate and
GAY GOOEN: so we're all "here"...
Troimille: "waiting for something".
SoCurious: ah.... I feel quite connected.... always have.... it's been honoring that connection that
SoCurious: has taken time..... the something was always there
SoulMan911: well said ,,,,curious
Troimille: In that sense, feeling the connection has been all the more frustrating-- it
Troimille: seems to stay just beyond reach for so long, no?
SoCurious: aha..... I've called that my "ache"..... have grown to love it
Troimille: Good way to put it, Curious
SoulMan911: maybe so ...but you know it's there
Troimille: I'd like to hear from some of you quieter people before going on... questions?
Troimille: Disagree with anything?
Tanajtras: LOL disagree and still agreeable
Honorble4U: I would like to talk more of the suicide feelings Troi, what happened to pull you out of that
Troimille: (You can tell if you have been quiet by whether you have said anything).
Honorble4U: Was it a feeling or a connection with something far beyond or what?
Honorble4U: Simply faith?
MBA500: suicide feeling .. .. ."walking in the valley of death"
Honorble4U: I believe the valley of death is the place of the most beautiful light. It is the entrance.
MBA500: while walking in the valley for me it became a matter of listening to the silence
Troimille: Honorble4U, what "happens" is what has thrown me into "despair"-- and then,
Troimille: at the bottom of the well, I come up against something ineffable but irrefutable.
MBA500: "for I am one with .. .."
GAY GOOEN: And that was?
MBA500: what ever divinity you believe in
GAY GOOEN: But what was it for you, Troi?"
MBA500: quantum energy .. ..life force.. . .which tends to thin from time to time in life's winters
Troimille: I've stood sobbing in front of the mirror, begging for release, and then clearly
Troimille: heard "On this earth there is nowhere to lay your head. You will complete all
Troimille: the way through this time."
Honorble4U:
Honorble4U: that one! Think about it!
Troimille: .. And in my encounters with Death (beginning at about 7 years old) I *saw*
Troimille: that the best I could hope for, if I ended my life, would be to start over,
Troimille: probably worse off.
Honorble4U: Evil is inherent in the world and beyond, if all things are to balance, as all things must!
MBA500: well the Jesuits would say that "fear is the beginning of all knowledge"
GAY GOOEN: Yes, Troi...yes, indeed.
Troimille: Honorble4U, what world have you been conjuring??? I find no inherent "evil" in my world...
Honorble4U: yes, Troi, what if huh?
Troimille: Welcome, Joymoon-- we are discussing what has made us go on after reaching the Bottom.
Honorble4U: Where there is darkness there is also light, Samuel, what is it you said once about too much
MBA500: Hnorbl.. .not sure if so call evil is inherent .. there is such thing as deep imbalances
Honorble4U: blinding you?
GAY GOOEN: Troi...have you seen "What Dreams May Come"...?
Joymoon: Thank you for informing me
MBA500: that create great havoc .. .which could be perceived as evil
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, sure-- it's great with the sound off, so I don't have to hear the
Troimille: childish, silly dialogue.
MBA500: yes .. .that Taoist concept of balance between light and darkness
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, but the images have stayed with me.
GAY GOOEN: It's the images....
Troimille: Any more comments before we go on?
Tanajtras: Imbedded in the heart? The images?
Troimille: Tanajtras, whom are you asking?
Tanajtras: With what you were referring to
Troimille: Tanajtras, something that somebody else brought up, but it would take us off-
Troimille: topic, I'm afraid.
Troimille: Now we get to what all this has to do with Tantra. First we must learn our
Troimille: selves, down to the bottom, and all our self-comforting and "reasons" and
Troimille: justifications, but without judgment-- just stark recognition of who and what we
Troimille: are, and what we have become.
Troimille: Next we must practice some disciplines in order to acquire the stability,
Troimille: stamina, quietness and centeredness to be able to undertake transformation.
Troimille: Then we must find out what to change in ourselves, and how to do it. All the
Troimille: while we are learning these things, we must start making tiny changes from the
Troimille: very beginning.
Troimille: Stop our unconscious reactions for a moment. Rechannel the automatic
Troimille: expression of negativity. Quiet the incessant self-destructive internal chatter.
Troimille: Learn how to align energies with the breath, with postures, with movements and
Troimille: tones.
Troimille: Learn how to control dreaming and astral traveling. Go through shamanic
Troimille: deaths without losing integrity. Make appointments with Power, and surrender
Troimille: to the inconceivable Mystery. Why the heck would we ever want to bother with
Troimille: all that??? :)
SoCurious: because it makes us what we are
SoulMan911: all has to do with enlightenment
Troimille: Why do we *need* enlightenment?
SoulMan911: seekers of the truth of what we are
Lightbr8: That is where we have "chosen" to be
SoCurious: to me it's more about being capable.... and useful.... and able
KENOAKHILL: perhaps more philosophers in hell than heaven
Troimille: Why can't we just go about our lives, love people, raise families, have careers,
Troimille: and die peacefully? Do we have some kind of worm eating at us?
Tanajtras: Would not enlightenment be an expectation?
MBA500: yes doubt
Troimille: Welcome, MaleBoomer, MariGina and BriteFire-- we're trying to decide why we
Troimille: should bother with all the trouble of Enlightenment.
Lightbr8: It is the path we chose when we came here this time
SoulMan911: it is imbedded in our souls
Troimille: Lightbr8, it must have been for me, for sure! I don't know how I would have
Troimille: lived through everything without that inner connection.
Lightbr8: It is part of our purpose this time
MaleBoomer: You often cannot understand why to bother with enlightenment until it has happened
Troimille: MaleBoomer, enlightenment *happens*?
Honorble4U: What is the definition of enlightenment?
SoulMan911: until you see a light ..you will be in pain
Lightbr8: LOL..sometimes I wonder if I got on the wrong line...why should I have to work so hard
Troimille: "Enlightenment" = NO DEFINITION!
GAY GOOEN: Enlightenment: Being still and knowing that you are God.
MBA500: Hnorbl. . . .naked awareness
MaleBoomer: It has been my experience that it happened. Perhaps I set the stage but it sort of happened
Troimille: MaleBoomer, you are enlightened now?
Tanajtras: Enlightenment = to behold
MaleBoomer: Oh far from it, but I think we have enlightenment in stages we can handle. Not a "big bang"
Troimille: Tanajtras, must be the same as "martyr" = "witness"
Tanajtras: witnessing the self, the atman
SoulMan911: only what we are capable of seeing ...and understanding
Troimille: MaleBoomer, I guess the fact that we are still 'alive" is "proof" that we could
Troimille: "handle" the stages, eh?
MaleBoomer: Yes, I have found for myself that enlightenment came when I could handle it
GAY GOOEN: I suspect that enlightenment is always there...for the surrendering.
Troimille: But I am not ready to declare enlightenment for myself. I have seen and
Troimille: experienced miracles, but my wish demands that I get to the top of the mountain.
Lightbr8: "came"??? Past tense??
MaleBoomer: The goal it would appear is to improve our ability to handle enlightenment than search for per se
SoulMan911: in that case Troi ....you have an infinite journey...
Troimille: MaleBoomer, what distinction are you making?
Lightbr8: Troi...I feel that when you reach the top of the mountain...you will be read you leave...you
MaleBoomer: Light my experience is that what I now see is enlightenment was only clear after the fact
Lightbr8: are here to experience...
Honorble4U: So the definition of enlightenment is each to his own? As is the journey?
Troimille: SoulMan911, it has already been infinite, but I have eternity available to me--
Troimille: cuts through lots of infinities, I find.
GAY GOOEN: I do need to leave, and I do want to say thank you, Troi. Very enlightening discussion.
Troimille: Lightbr8, try again? Some of what you said got garbled in transmission...
SoulMan911: are there any shortcuts Troi?
MaleBoomer: Honorable I think what is enlightenment to me may not be to others. Its my enlightenment on my path
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, thank you, dear! Try us again in two weeks?
GAY GOOEN: Same, Honor. A demain...Yes, Troi, two weeks. Namaste, friends.
Troimille: SoulMan911, yes, but they've all taken me a long way around... :)
SoulMan911: Peace Gay
Honorble4U: no shortcuts Soul.
Troimille: Nice to see you, Gddsshuntr and Tamerri! We are trying on Enlightenment.
Honorble4U: Gddss, can you speak to the Goddess path to enlightenment?
Honorble4U: Or would that be out of turn here?
Gddsshuntr: sorry but have not been following the discussion, Honorble...
Troimille: Honorble4U, in a way-- Gddss hasn't had a chance to get comfy yet here tonight.
Gddsshuntr: the topic is extraordinarily person-specific...
Gddsshuntr: as Troimille has observed
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, actually, that wasn't the topic over-all-- it was really "What is in the
Troimille: way of Love?"
Troimille: We just ended up on enlightenment. But anything you'd like to share would be welcome.
Gddsshuntr: I my humble view, the way of love is the way of living in the miracle moment.
Gddsshuntr: the way of living with all the senses alive and "listening"
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, wonderfully put!
Gddsshuntr: such that all experience contributes to the knowledge of love
SoCurious: mmmmm..... so many possibilities!
Gddsshuntr: again, in my humble view, the body, the mind and the spirit all contribute to the experience of love
MBA500: SoC .. .possibilities is a good word
Gddsshuntr: of loving
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, then why do we get in the way of that experience?
Gddsshuntr: karma gets in the way. how else do we explain it?
Gddsshuntr: our past negative experiences confuse our Being...
Gddsshuntr: confuse our seeing
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, I'm having to explain without "karma" these days.
Gddsshuntr: I see
Gddsshuntr: well, past experience is a weight each of us carries
Troimille: Then we are left with choice-in-the-moment, right?
Gddsshuntr: yes, we are left with a choice of the moment, influenced by the
Gddsshuntr: weights of the past, or by the "lightness of being" if we have done well.
Troimille: That is, *despite* everything I have dragged along with me, I now choose
Troimille: gratitude, I now choose, joy, I now choose devotion, I now choose to love.
BriteFire: why weights of the past? wouldn't it be weights in the present?
BriteFire: weights we are continuing to hold?
Troimille: It's amazing how these tiny choices, moment-by-moment, change my reality.
Tafc323: Choice is a gift to not be taken lightly
Troimille: What do you all find?
Gddsshuntr: weights make themselves known in the present, yes Brite...
BriteFire: weights we are choosing to hold...
Gddsshuntr: yet they accumulate based on the negativity created by past actions.
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, to me, all those past histories are nothing but excuses-- they don't
MBA500: choosing to belief
Troimille: have independent existence, I find.
Troimille: MBA500, how's that?
Honorble4U: Do you understand what a gift "choice" is though?
MBA500: Troi .. .there are many possibilities .. .. in fact often a desire not to believe
MBA500: in the possibilities
SoulMan911: but they do have influence on the choices one makes Troi
MBA500: its why I say "power and belief are one
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, do you disagree? Can we make an independent choice to release,
Troimille: to forgive, to open right now this moment without reference to some past event?
BriteFire: MBA...I concur
Troimille: MBA500, I think that is what has trapped us for so long...
Gddsshuntr: such choices seem to require extraordinary courage, Troimille
Gddsshuntr: and unique preparation
Honorble4U: so true
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, you bet! And desperation, and devotion, and commitment, and Power.
MBA500: Troi .. . .culturally conflicting beliefs yes
Gddsshuntr: demanding extensive preparation beforehand
BriteFire: Gddss...seems to me the only courage that is needed is to make the choice
Honorble4U: and positivity, one must be open to the light
Troimille: MBA500, that's why (as you'll see in the log) I started out with our cultural biases.
Tafc323: Without the gift of choice you would just "be" and that is not "being"!!!!!!
Honorble4U: What is the difference Vic?
Troimille: Honorble4U, for sure -- absolutely *demand* the Light, right?
Honorble4U: yes.
Troimille: Tafc323, just being is not being???
Lightbr8: Gddsshuntr...could you explain "preparation"
Tafc323: One has freedom and the other does not.
Gddsshuntr: preparation. discipline. dedication and devotion to the Path.
MBA500: Gddhtr... .discipline is another good word
Gddsshuntr: disciple. discipline. the word roots are the same, Lightbr8.
MBA500: met a wiccan at a gathering this past Saturday .. .older woman .. very wise
BriteFire: I don't see that one would need devotion to a particular path to choose to release old
Lightbr8: thank you
BriteFire: rubbish ... or old beliefs for that matter
MBA500: she said "I can not teach anyone the mysteries I can only show them"
Gddsshuntr: all paths are the same Path, Brite... in my view.
Lightbr8: Brite...you make it sound so easy
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, I think *choice* is a special "handicap" we threw into the game.
Troimille: Power animals have no trouble with either Being or Power without this "choice"
BriteFire: Light...it is
Troimille: MBA500, that's what my teacher says, too.
MBA500: Brite .. .mastery requires discipline ... it depends on how serious you are on a given path
MBA500: "the 64 A&S"
Gddsshuntr: I'm sorry Troimille, but I'm confused. it seems even the power animals express choice...
BriteFire: what path? why does one need a path?
Gddsshuntr: the Raven by its selection of power objects, for example...
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, not the kind of choice we are talking about.
Gddsshuntr: the Bear, by is selection of ways and means to achievement.
Gddsshuntr: I see
MBA500: path is only a word .. .symbolizing a journey towards a vision quest
Gddsshuntr: yes, MBA.
Troimille: Gddsshuntr, they express *intent*. The choice that we dance around in circles
Troimille: about is sort of a decoy.
BriteFire: when you make a choice and commit to it...you give it your energy
BriteFire: that is power
Honorble4U: I love that MBA
Gddsshuntr: yes. power goes where intention goes, in my view, Brite.
BriteFire: MBA...it doesn't even have to be toward a vision quest necessarily
Troimille: BriteFire, right on! Or we could say, "We invoke Power to channel its
Troimille: expression through us", no?
Gddsshuntr: the mind, consciousness, is the source of All That Is, Brite...
BriteFire: Troi...where is the choice in that?
MBA500: Brite .. .free flow is all good .. ..however evolution . .within a brief lifetime of 90 or
MBA500: 100 years requires discipline
Troimille: BriteFire, it's a very different kind of choice- the kind that the magical beings make.
BriteFire: MBA...I choose effortless instead effortlessness that is
MBA500: in my own personal case .. .often before momentum builds towards my desire
MBA500: direction for evolution . .. . fate seems to throw challenges obstacles
Troimille: Well, friends-- it looks like you are all doing fine here, and I've said everything I
Troimille: wanted to for tonight. I'll leave you with another homework assignment...
BriteFire: MBA...fate? fate has power over you?
Gddsshuntr: thank you Troimille.... and goodnight from here as well.
MBA500: it is at this point that my discipline becomes in direct contrast with the challenge
MBA500: discipline for perseverance .. .relentlessness to excel
MBA500: it has power over one that has not enough life force energy to overcome it
MBA500: winter always come .. .5 years ago you may have broken down not so this year
MBA500: precisely because of discipline
Troimille: Homework #2: Notice whether your "choices" are conscious or habitual. Notice
Troimille: what you really have any choice about. Notice whether you can intend beyond
Troimille: circumstances.
Troimille: Any questions about the assignment?
Troimille: I guarantee that if you can follow this "assignment" once a day, you will
Troimille: accumulate new Power and sensibilities.
Esnshl4me: thanks Barry.
KENOAKHILL: chat is the perfect forum for these discussions.....no visual prejudices. Thank you all.
SoulMan911: thansk Troi...have a peaceful evening ..to one and all
Troimille: Sweet dreams, friends.
Lightbr8: Thank you very much for sharing....
BriteFire: Namasté Troi
Troimille: Lightbr8, and thank *you* for opening up so much!
Alisnntrnt: Namaste' everyone
Lightbr8: Nite Mary
Alisnntrnt: thanks to all of you for contributing
Lightbr8: :)
Troimille: BriteFire, I can always feel your supportive strength.
BriteFire:
Esnshl4me: G'night all
LadyWolffe: thank you all for being so thought provoking
Troimille: MBA, I wanted to acknowledge your clarity of observations at the end there, but
Troimille: was preoccupied with closing the lesson out.
LadyWolffe: goodnight all.......
Troimille: Good night, till next time... <poof>
MBA500: everyone live long and prosper
Lightbr8: Nite all