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The following is a Log of
The Tantric Forum
~~~~~~~~~~~~« Speaker »~~~~~~~~~~~~
Troimille
“The Current of Love” #5 of 10”
»§«~*~»§«~*~»§«~*(Christmas theme) »§«~*~»§«~*~»§«
"The esoteric meaning of the 'virgin birth of the deity.'
Why this occurs, what it costs, and the ultimate value of allowing this to
occur.
The price of cynicism vs entering
into Divine Love."
The Divine Essence material of Love-snowflakes and its
supreme intelligence.
What the deity wants from us; how it changes us; how it changes
"reality"; the Miraculous.
~~~~~~~~~~~« Log~has~been~edited »~~~~~~~~~~~
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Alisnntrnt: Barry will be speaking...part 5 of his
series
GAY GOOEN: lovely...always like listening to him. (Janie is hooked!)
Lightbr8: About the virgin birth and its meaning
Alisnntrnt: I know ;)
GAY GOOEN: Oh, the way we were born, huh? (grin)
Lightbr8: now you two...stop that...at least it is an intelligent person who
has some thought
Lightbr8: speak of the devil...and here he is
Alisnntrnt: welcome Barry :)
Troimille: Good evening, dear friends.
GAY GOOEN: Evening, Tro.
Alisnntrnt: all old friends here tonight
OneTernura: Evening Barry
Lightbr8: Evening Barry
Troimille: How was your Christmas? Mine was heavenly
at times.
OneTernura: heavenly....at times. :)
GAY GOOEN: Mine was interesting. I spent part of it in the desert.
Troimille: GAY GOOEN, on a
vision quest?
GAY GOOEN: Nope. On a personal journey...in
GAY GOOEN: ...and I have the greatest admiration for anyone (or anything) that
lives there.
Troimille: I know what you mean, but it is so
beautiful. Now, then, is
anybody trying some of the
Troimille: exercises?
Troimille: Nice to see you, Chiron!
Chiron3615: Thanks ; )
Alisnntrnt: yes Barry, watching how often I react,
trying to be aware of
myself doing so
Troimille: How do you try, Mary?
Alisnntrnt: I'm tuning into the triggers
Troimille: Can you catch them in advance, before you
go into automatic reaction?
Alisnntrnt: not yet....but I'm getting closer I think
Alisnntrnt: it will take practice
Alisnntrnt: and lots of it
Troimille: The way I've been able to do it has been
to observe myself many times a day for a
Troimille: decade or two, and then install
"trip-wires" in front of the
points where I'm likely to get
Troimille: hooked.
Alisnntrnt: what I'm beginning to recognize is
commonalties in what I feel inside
Lightbr8: what do you mean "trip-wires"
Lightbr8: Can I get them at Home Depot?
Troimille: Markers-- so that no matter how much I
forget, I trip over
something that reminds me to
Troimille: react differently, step into a different
position.
Lightbr8: can you give me an example of these??
Alisnntrnt: is this a little like NLP Barry?
Lightbr8: I know where some of my triggers are....but I don't catch them before
they occur
Troimille: Once we know ourselves really thoroughly,
we can set up little traps for ourselves. For
Troimille: example, I know that I always get into an
argument with my ex
when the subject of her
Troimille: ex-husband comes up...
Troimille: Yes, NLP has helped a lot with this work.
Troimille: So I set up a "program" in which
I listen to her much more, and also observe what
Troimille: agenda slips in, in myself.
Troimille: Hi, MyYwRose!
Lightbr8: hummm....become the observer...without
emotional reaction
MyYwRose: hello Troimille
:)
Troimille: I don't know if we can do anything real
without some sort of
emotional response-- that is
Troimille: the passion of our Life Force,
isn't it? So I concentrate on
giving myself new emotional
Troimille: options.
Lightbr8: sounds easier said than done...do you find it difficult??
Troimille: I'd like to change the homework exercise:
just pick, now-- in
advance-- any particular
Troimille: time tomorrow in which you will
freeze-frame whatever you catch yourself doing, and
Troimille: take a snapshot of your whole state,
including what lies you are telling yourself at the
Troimille: time.
Lightbr8: OK
Troimille: Any questions about the homework?
Alisnntrnt: no Barry...I understand this one
Troimille: OK, let's start in on tonight's subject:
Troimille: Well, friends-- do you think it is a
coincidence that, at this
"merry" time of year, people
Troimille: flip out-- commit suicide, go on rampages
or profess to be the new True Prophet?
Troimille: "Science" likes to trivialize
these energies by saying that the
shortness of the days
Troimille: induces a different metabolic cycle, like
hibernating bears, that
changes brain
Troimille: functioning.
Troimille: But suppose these intense moods are
instead the awakening of the
various passions
Troimille: which make up our life force. Or you could
say that Life Force is
one Whole Brilliance,
Troimille: and the way we channel it breaks its Light
up into a spectrum of "flavors."
Troimille: Then what is the difference between feeling
passion, and flipping out? Do you notice
Troimille: how regularly, in relationships,
"love" degenerates into
contempt, pain and dependency?
Troimille: So, to me, how we channel our energies and
passions comes down to the capacity of
Troimille: each of us to silently honor them and
embrace them and their
expression in other people.
Troimille: That means being able to forget about
"me"-- my requirements, my expectations, my
Troimille: "needs", my total thrall of
self-importance-- and *remember* my Self.
Troimille: Questions, comments so far?
Troimille: Do we really have two selves-- one which
is filled with
self-pity, self-immolation, and
Troimille: the requirements that everybody think
about me in my special ways that I require; and
Troimille: some other Self which somehow is Love
itself?
Troimille: A Self which remembers the deepest wish of
my heart, and which has intelligence born
Troimille: of mindfulness, even without words, and
endless compassion born of fully awakened
Troimille: conscience. A Self which remembers our
relationship to God and all Divinity?
Troimille: A Self which provides us each with all the
life experiences we
could need in order to
Troimille: embrace the Whole of who
and what we are? Is that really me too?
Troimille: Well, let's have some participation, eh?
Lightbr8: Yes...I think we all have that duality
Troimille: Who is "we all"? It sounds so
comforting-- "I'm like
everybody--yup, I'm human, all right"
Troimille: :)
Lightbr8: I think we have both sides...
Lightbr8: OK...then "I" have both of those sides....I will speak for
myself
Troimille: Lightbr8, what sides do *you* have? Which
side is your
heart-wish on?
Lightbr8: and Yup...I am human
Lightbr8: my heart wish is on the "love" side...the side that is not
so
effected by ego
Troimille: Can we "love" without filtering
it thru ego?
Lightbr8: the side that is not the me...but the self
essence
Alisnntrnt: I ask myself that Q often Barry
Lightbr8: Yes I think we can....it comes from the pure side...not the side
driven by need
Troimille: How is it not you? What are you?
Lightbr8: I said I think we have a duality working within us....or sorry
within me
Troimille: Which one is "me"?
Lightbr8: within this body called "Jane"..in this particular lifetime
Lightbr8: Love that is not filtered through ego...I feel...is called totally
unconditional love
Lightbr8: Hello???
GAY GOOEN: Barry...everything filters through the ego, doesn't it?
Alisnntrnt: and my Q is, is it really possible to get
past ego?
GAY GOOEN: Ego is, to my way of thinking, psychological
"structure"...
Lightbr8: But my goal.....don't know if
attainable....is to not come from
ego...but from my heart.
GAY GOOEN: ...and maybe the ego simply "retires" gently and allows
heart-soul work to dominate...when
GAY GOOEN: we've worked hard enough...
GAY GOOEN: and been focused enough on that part of the process.
Lightbr8: Ego is important...I think....it helps us to go on many time
Lightbr8: Yes Gay....as we grow.....I think
Alisnntrnt: I don't know what to think about ego
...>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Troimille: Any comments or questions so far?
GAY GOOEN: Well, I had asked you
GAY GOOEN: if Ego wasn't a part of all that we did...
GAY GOOEN: because
GAY GOOEN: I thought ego was the psychological "structure" within us.
GAY GOOEN: So everything has to "pass through" the ego...
Troimille: Ego, in general is defined just that way--
I am speaking of
false-ego, personality--
Troimille: what has been loaded onto us by people and
events.
Troimille: See the diff?
GAY GOOEN: Yes...I understand. So it comes from the facade we create because
GAY GOOEN: we don't like those parts of our Self.
GAY GOOEN: You call that "false personality", yes?
GAY GOOEN: My own take on this is that there are four aspects of Self:
GAY GOOEN: the Real (true) Self, the Blind Spot, the Facade, and the Unknown
(also known
GAY GOOEN: as potential)
GAY GOOEN: At least those are the aspects of Self I work with in my own work...
GAY GOOEN: and I find that people fit into one of those "states" all
of the
time.
Troimille: Sounds OK, but I wouldn't call the Blind
Spot the self-- it is
what allows the Facade to
Troimille: operate "independently."
GAY GOOEN: Well, I differentiate the two this way. The blind spot is the
GAY GOOEN: place where we do things we can't see that we do...we're simply
GAY GOOEN: "blind" to them; the Facade is the place where we
"fake it"
GAY GOOEN: because we don't like those aspects of our Self.
GAY GOOEN: So in the Blind Spot, we don't know our Self; in the Facade, we know
our Self
Troimille: But you left out an important
"self"-- the Formatory Apparatus, which
allows us to
Troimille: mechanically categorize and label
everything so we then think we "understand."
GAY GOOEN: and don't like what we know.
GAY GOOEN: Well...I'm not familiar with the term...my own orientation is
Jungian...but I do appreciate
Troimille: Anyway, there are different ways to break
it down. Ultimately, Ifind, they won't matter,
Troimille: because we'll come up face to face with
our own Conscience.
GAY GOOEN: the process you describe.
GAY GOOEN: Conscience exists in every one of the stages ...
GAY GOOEN: It is the continuous factor...
Troimille: The point is not how to further categorize
our notions about
ourselves, but how to actually
Troimille: observe where we are in it all.
Troimille: Not by saying "I'm in Mask" or
"I'm in adult warrior shield", but by installing a wordless
Troimille: Observer over everything.
Troimille: This gets to the bigger question-- Where
is my Passion in all of this?
Troimille: Where is my Power- -certainly none in all
of my habitual
responses and "thoughts"-- where
Troimille: else or how else could I possibly exist?
Troimille: What am I", we can each ask our self.
GAY GOOEN: Barry...I need to interrupt, to apologize for needing to leave. But
it is 10 bells here, and
GAY GOOEN: I need to get to work. Thanks.
GAY GOOEN: Good discussion.
GAY GOOEN: I appreciate it.
GAY GOOEN: Namaste.
Troimille: OK, Gay-- nice seeing you-- have a great
New Year.
Troimille: So, anybody here- how do you find your
dream, your passion, your Wish?
Lightbr8: I listen to my heart....that is where my dream...passion...wish
lives
Alisnntrnt: I may be missing the point here, but my
passions are the joys I take in everyday things...
Alisnntrnt: I accept them as they occur
Troimille: Jane, how do you let your Heart speak to
you? How do you make space for it?
Alisnntrnt: some I work at though, like my practice
Lightbr8: For me...I listen to what it has to say....and I have learned to
trust it
Troimille: Mary, that sounds
too facile-- are you *really* and truly seeing with "beginner eyes",
Troimille: tasting the newness of every small
impression?
Alisnntrnt: what else would I be doing Barry?
Troimille: What you are attributing to yourself is
quite a rare
accomplishment.
Alisnntrnt: maybe so....
Troimille: I find that we congratulate ourselves way way too prematurely.
Troimille: It is the Mask that self-congratulates--
the Essence knows that it is Nothing.
Troimille: I'm going to roll out more of the prepared
text-- that might help illuminate this
Troimille: discussion.
Troimille: Now, how does the possibility of the
Divinity of the Self bring
us along to the miracle of
Troimille: the "virgin birth" of the deity?
I put it in this generic way
because this procedure has been
Troimille: performed throughout the history of
humanity-- just not very
often, and not in the eye of
Troimille: the public.
Troimille: The Self that we have been talking about
is not the one that
separates itself,
Troimille: drains its life force in endless
comparisons and judgments and negativity; this
Troimille: other Self is shared in truly wonderful
ways-- more than
telepathic, and
Troimille: embracing many frames of sequential time
at once.
Troimille: Who or what is the Deity? It is not some
two-legged guy that
walks around performing
Troimille: miraculous healings, really, although we
do get that phenomenon.
The Deity itself is, as I
Troimille: have witnessed it, the passionate embrace
of Intelligence and
Love which is all that I-
Troimille: am/you-are-- the creation of the universe
here-now in total
Beauty. In entering into this
Troimille: Union, we redeem our birthright as
immortal Sprit, all inclusive.
Troimille: But we can't understand this yet, not till
we have met with Power enough times, not till
Troimille: we have died enough times, and been reborn
transformed. Power is what embraces the
Troimille: Whole of the Self at once,
and its force is completely
irresistible-- and it comes from
Troimille: utter humility!
Troimille: Because as soon as the petty ego gets hold
of it, it is just
force, like a fire-hose, which
Troimille: lashes back at its wielder if they don't
know how to control it.
Ego tries to do, to make
Troimille: things happen, from a position of
ignorance, fear, separation and self-loathing. Power IS
Troimille: the Whole of itself, with nothing special
to do, yet
has the power to do, which is
Troimille: exactly sorcery -- magic!
Troimille: So a group of people begin to find clues,
and the clues show them where to find maps,
Troimille: and the maps show them how to receive
transmissions and find more instructions and
Troimille: clues. Ultimately, with a great deal of
"luck," they gain enough understanding and Power
Troimille: to be able to dance a Divine Being into
manifestation.
Troimille: Which particular Divine Being they
generate depends on how disciplined they are--
Troimille: whether they can hold the purity of Love,
mercy, wisdom, justice, and consistency
Troimille: together long enough for the attributes to
attune a Beingness--
the personification of these
Troimille: idealized qualities-- in crystallization.
Troimille: One of the main devices we have used for
attaining this imaging quality is
Troimille: religious ritual. We continuously praise
and thank the idealized embodiment of all
Troimille: the features we want to find in the God,
and we just as
continuously exorcise all
Troimille: the "sinful" qualities in
ourselves which tend to deteriorate the
image we are
Troimille: forming.
Troimille: It's that simple-- the miracle of
Christmas is that we have the
capacity to image God into
Troimille: existence. We don't have to get lost in
questions like, "Is
Jesus God?" or "Is God Jesus"
Troimille: or "Am I God?" or "Is God
me?" or "Are you me?"
Troimille: We dance away our sins, and together we lase the most wondrous hologram
into form. If
Troimille: we do this steadfastly for enough
lifetimes, we may-- as has
happened a few times-- get
Troimille: the personification to crystallize in the
material plane long
enough for
Troimille: everything.
Troimille: So, dear friends, this was my humble
attempt to tie in our
Tantric work with the Miraculous
Troimille: nature of this holy day.
Troimille: *** Floor is open for discussion.
Lightbr8: well this was a whole lot at once....I can't discuss without
reading and rereading this over
Lightbr8: a few times....too much at once without absorbing
Alisnntrnt: Barry, maybe you could rephrase some?
Troimille: My point is that we ourselves are
Miraculous Nature-- we only
make ourselves small and
Troimille: ordinary through special efforts!
Troimille: ... and that, by revealing and embracing
our Miraculous Nature, we can bring the
Troimille: Miraculous into our "daily
life."
Lightbr8: yes...I can understand that...not there yet...but can understand
that....but have question
Troimille: ... except that there is no "daily
life" to return to after make
the leap, the
Troimille: transformation into Love and Power.
Lightbr8: What is the sig. of the "virgin" birth...
Troimille: Jane, the "virgin birth" is
exactly the magical ritual of a
committed mystical group in
Troimille: manifesting Divine nature.
Troimille: It is not some young girl who has some
baby.
Troimille: So that religions all started out as the
*practice* of
manifesting and crystallizing Divine
Troimille: nature in perceivable form.
Lightbr8: are you saying that it is the bringing forth of a power....bringing
forth the miraculous??
Troimille: Exactly so, Jane. The format of the
Troimille: same today as it was 10,000 years ago.
Lightbr8: But some evolved being was brought forth at that time called
Jesus??
Lightbr8: Is that not true?
Lightbr8: Hello???
Troimille: Is *what* "true"??? Something
that you nor I can have no idea
about??? Hello?
Lightbr8: Read above....
Troimille: Jane, I read it five times.
Lightbr8: So was a being called Jesus brought forth at this time?
Troimille: I wasn't there, but *any*
"answer" would be quite meaningless to us.
Troimille: We have no idea Who
or What Jesus *is*, do we?
Lightbr8: Well I don't consider it meaningless...this person called
Jesus...a man who stories have
Lightbr8: been related about....has some very good lessons to teach...
Troimille: Slow down a bit, Jane-- you're missing my
whole point.
Lightbr8: O..then please
explain further
Troimille: First of all, I am not a
"Christian", so I don't really care
whatever "happened" in the
Troimille: "Bible"...
Troimille: ... all I care about is whether I can use
the lab notes that
their mystical college left
Troimille: behind for us.
Troimille: The answer for me is Yes,
because I have witnessed the
manifestation of Divinity, and been
Troimille: permanently changed by it.
Alisnntrnt: Barry, earlier you mentioned a most
wondrous hologram
Troimille: *Jesus*, in the form in which He presents
Himself to me, shows me the steps of the path
Troimille: to take in following Him.
Troimille: Yes, Mary?
Alisnntrnt: is this what you're referring to now?
Alisnntrnt: you said it has happened a few times.....
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, not
yet-- that may come after 3 or 4 decades of
single-minded discipline. :)
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, this
phenomenon, yes, several times in last 10,000
years.
Alisnntrnt: I guess I need to know what these 'look'
like then
Alisnntrnt: I don't have a clear understanding of the
difference
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, that is my very point-- we need to reconstitute in
order to perceive the
Troimille: Miraculous-- everyone will cast
doubt.
Troimille: Mary, diff between what and what?
Alisnntrnt: the hologram and what it is we can
manifest now
Alisnntrnt: manifestation of Divinity
Troimille: All of everything *IS* the hologram, but
what we "are" "now" is scattered all over it,
Troimille: kaleidoscopically.
Troimille: We have false mask, but no single purpose,
no Will, no permanent identity.
Alisnntrnt: that I understand
Troimille: We act like we are praying for good, but
our secret agendas spoil our manifestations.
Alisnntrnt: so what's the solution?
Troimille: So, in effect, we
mindlessly, out of fragments of
Troimille: self.
Alisnntrnt: and what are the effects of doing that?
Troimille: The solution-- to really commit ourselves
to these simple
exercises, and make a point of
Troimille: accumulating lots of observations -- to Know our Self.
Troimille: Mary, the result of Knowing and embracing
the Whole of our Self is to reclaim our
Troimille: Miraculous nature- to manifest Will and
Love.
Troimille: ... and to express the Divine on all these
levels and dimensions and densities.
Alisnntrnt: understood Barry
Troimille: OK, anything else before we close?
Alisnntrnt: thank you for sharing tonight Barry
Lightbr8: Thank you Barry....
Alisnntrnt: Happy New Year!
Alisnntrnt: Namaste'
Alisnntrnt: :)))
Troimille: Thank you all, and have a wondrous New
Year!
Lightbr8: Yes..Have a wonderful New Year....!!!!!