~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following is a Log of The
Tantric Forum
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~«Speaker
»~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Troimille
"The Current of
Love" #6 of 10
(New Year theme)
"Why real healings are agonizing at first,
because of the deep wounds.
But bliss comes to those of us who suffer gratefully, willingly and
devotedly."
New year-- starting over fresh; leaping into the abyss of
healing and the Mystery of Joy.
Converting agony into sacredness and lasting joy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~« Log has been edited »~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Troimille: First I'll take questions or comments on
the last homework. All at once, please.
Troimille: Is anybody trying it?
Alisnntrnt: yes, I have been
Troimille: Are you getting snapshots?
Tanajtras: this is something I do daily
Alisnntrnt: so far for me Barry, it has been a bit
easier to ID the lies
than it is to ID the triggers
TantraMom: me too
Troimille: First make it very simple-- just catch
yourself *at all*!
Troimille: How do you do it, Andrew?
Tanajtras: instead of lies I call them defects
Troimille: Sounds like we're still stopping to judge,
no?
Tanajtras: Generally I have an awareness of who I am
and how I operate
TantraMom: judging seems to be where my mind goes
Tanajtras: I feel the need to judge only myself
Troimille: Well, Andrew, that's great-- now keep at
it till you realize that
you *don't*!
Tanajtras: I witness that as well
Troimille: We are a stupendous mystery, unassailable
by any "reason" or
assessment.
Tanajtras: the reflections of past present and future
Troimille: ... waiting for comments, questions,
complaints, signs of life :)
TantraMom: has led to changing habits for me
TantraMom: habits
Troimille: How so, Lynne?
TantraMom: increase in productivity
Troimille: Please elucidate into a whole sentence...
TantraMom: not wasting time...as least not as much
having more intention
in my day
Troimille: OK, that
Troimille: is good.
TantraMom: focusing my power
LadyWolffe: trying to be aware of the moment
Troimille: ... but at first it's better to not try to
change anything--
we're trying to get snapshots
Troimille: of how we
LadyWolffe: trying to pay attention
LadyWolffe: go into automatic a lot
Troimille: What gets in the way,
LadyWolffe: in the way? of
what?
Troimille: ... you are right, we are full of
automatic programs. We are
trying to put them on manual.
Troimille: ... Do you see why?
MaleBoomer: Sure, to avoid the old dramas
LadyWolffe: yes...because it bores me
Troimille: ... and to make what possible?
TantraMom: new dramas?
Lightbr8: to make growth possible
LadyWolffe: just to avoid the humdrum
LadyWolffe: everyday everyday
LadyWolffe: same routine
Troimille: I wish to attain the ecstatic moment of
total bliss-- can't do
that with heavy old
Troimille: programming, unconscious and numb, right?
MaleBoomer: To gain some control of what we really
can experience not just
live
TantraMom: yup...see the point
LadyWolffe: true
TantraMom: to be fully present
MaleBoomer: Its often a
challenge to rise above the comfortable though
Troimille: Male, sure-- but what kind of control?
Mostly we put a hammerlock
on our possibilities with
Troimille: our "control", don't we?
TantraMom: touché
Troimille: Male, yes-- we are usually too comfy.
MaleBoomer: Going along to get along I call it
Troimille: I am lucky-- I am flipping right out of my
skull!
SoulMan911:
LadyWolffe: yes Norm
MaleBoomer: What do you mean Troi?
SoulMan911: what does too comfy mean
Tanajtras: Set in our ways
TantraMom: complacent
LadyWolffe: in your comfort zone and cant break out
TantraMom: stuck
Alisnntrnt: and maybe not even knowing we're stuck
Troimille: Male, I am never comfortable any more (if
I ever was)-- every day
I undergo ordeals of
Troimille: anxiety, nausea, insomnia, constant
headaches, shaking and dread.
SoulMan911: I find myself uneasy being too comfy ...why is that
LadyWolffe: Troi....and
here I thought I just got over the flu.....lol
MaleBoomer: Troi I hope
this is not what you have in mind for us LOL
Troimille: SoulMan, that is
the secret for you to discover-- it might lead
you to your ultimate
Troimille: possibilities.
TantraMom: we don't like what we see around
us...within us?
SoulMan911: you are probably right ..
Troimille: Male, I don't know what YOU will uncover,
but I've been sitting
on this volcano for 50
Troimille: years.
MaleBoomer: I don't sense I am sitting on a volcano
at 50
Troimille: Mary, you are right-- we will argue any
amount to prove that we
are "growing" and
Troimille: "transforming", and sleep all
the sounder for it.
Troimille: Male, that is me, you are you-- can you
tell?
SoulMan911: I enjoy having my adrenaline flowing makes all my senses feel
alive
LadyWolffe: how can we be all One if that’s the case?
MaleBoomer: The question is,
I suppose, if I know me
Troimille: SoulMan, sure--
we even become addicted to externals that make
our adrenaline flow-- but it
Troimille: produces unbalanced alchemy, like false kundalini, right?
LadyWolffe: also, words are energy and we should
direct it positively
MaleBoomer: Soul what makes the adrenaline flow?
SoulMan911: maybe .....if that is what it is
Troimille: Male, I think that will take us in some
other direction-- I'd
rather hear what brings us
Troimille: back.
SoulMan911: sense of fear ..and a need to survive
Troimille: OK, that's enough about the homework for
now-- let me know if
you're ready for the main
Troimille: course now...
MaleBoomer: Sorry Troi What is the theme tonight then?
Troimille: Did anybody not see the announcement? I'll
repeat it here:
Troimille: "Why real healings are agonizing at
first, because of the deep
wounds. But bliss comes to
Troimille: those of us who suffer gratefully,
willingly and devotedly." New
year-- starting over fresh;
Troimille: leaping into the abyss of healing and the
Mystery of Joy.
Converting agony into
Troimille: sacredness and lasting joy.
MaleBoomer: Not sure I have any agony to convert Or perhaps I am taking this
too literally
Binarby: Agony might be too strong a word
Troimille: MaleBoomer, the
agony comes when we dig deeply into ourselves to
know who and what
Troimille: we are. :)
Tanajtras: And fins some of the bones left in the
closet
Tanajtras: find
Lightbr8: That’s for sure....if you are willing to really look
MaleBoomer: Is that always the case Troi? Can't we end up being happy after
the digging?
Troimille: Binarby, it
turns out not to be quite strong enough, at least in
some cases. :)
Binarby: lol in agony
Binarby: ;)
Troimille: MaleBoomer,
happy takes on a whole new meaning when we've really
learned our selves
Troimille: and healed everything.
Troimille: Let me put it this way:
MaleBoomer: So does that mean unless we come up with
some conflict (aka
agony) we haven't "learned"?
Troimille: If we want to experience total intensity
of bliss and ecstasy, it
is just the opposite face
Troimille: of the agony of self-awareness.
Troimille: MaleBoomer,
let's not worry about "meaning' right now-- we'll get
to it from another
Troimille: angle.
MaleBoomer: OK I'll listen for a bit
Troimille: OK, please hold comments so we can get
underway, unless
emergency, like not
Troimille: understanding a term.
Troimille: Happy New Year! Why is that such a joyful
thing to invoke? We
allow ourselves a new
Troimille: beginning, to anticipate being able to
expand, to do things
differently, to fulfill some of our
Troimille: dreams, right? But one of those old
limiting habits is to
immediately give ourselves all the
Troimille: cop-outs we need: "I don't really
have to change" or "I'll change
when they do" or "I'm on
Troimille: my path, so what more should I have to
do."
Troimille: Notice the "questions" that
don't end in a question mark-- those
are the giveaways, the
Troimille: warning bells that I have once again
retreated from the brink of
transformation and the
Troimille: fulfillment of the miracle of my life.
Troimille: (OK so far?)
Lightbr8: agree so far
Binarby: Cop-out is right. . . .I agree
Troimille: Why do you suppose we have all these back
doors and escape
hatches from ourselves, our
Troimille: destiny? Am I actually comfortable in
whatever I'm stuck in? Am
I that afraid of
Troimille: completing my expression and receiving the
rewards, or of being
found not good enough?
Troimille: Then I am not being driven by my passion--
I am allowing my fears
and "comfort" to stop
Troimille: me, just as it stopped me last year.
"Oh, but I did accomplish
things last year," I explain.
Troimille: Actually, most of what I
"accomplished" is what I felt compelled
to do by outside pressures-
Troimille: - bills to pay, saving face, meeting
"deadlines"-- and not as the
expression of my passion
Troimille: and my brilliance.
Troimille: So this new year, am I content merely to
"get along", avoid
getting screwed, cover my butt?
Troimille: Or am I driven to "go past the edge
of the world"? Do you have
a vision that simply
Troimille: *must* be expressed, that is eating you
alive, that you are
tripping over everywhere?
Troimille: That will be your ticket to fulfillment,
even to Freedom. Freedom
from what? From the
Troimille: "contentment" of killing time till
it's my turn to dry up, wither
and finally die ignobly of
Troimille: preventable diseases at far too early an
age, leaving behind some
more generations of
Troimille: "consumers" that I've spawned?
Troimille: Freedom from the tiny, predictable categories
and formulations
that I've been indoctrinated
Troimille: with? But what is the real freedom of Being?
Binarby: real freedom of being is freedom FROM being,
maybe
Troimille: (Any ideas or questions on this so far?)
Troimille: Binarby, how so?
Binarby: in "being" lies the illusion
Binarby: for me at least
Lightbr8: To confront the fear and have the courage to let go of the old
patterns and know that you
Binarby: the passion that you talk of is lost in the
face of the outer world
Lightbr8: will live through it
Binarby: for me
Troimille: Binarby, I'd say
that Being is the only chance we've got.
Illusion is not from
Troimille: being, is it?
Troimille: Lightbr8, good definition for faith, I
think. :)
Binarby: not "being' in general sense, but being
in the idea of being in the
prescripted roles
Lightbr8: The trick is....
Binarby: freedom from being what is expected
Lightbr8: having the faith to let go....
SoulMan911: freedom to be able to just be yourself ...to know
yourself, express yourself
Troimille: Binarby, I'd
like to reserve the word Being for whatever is not
in the illusion.
Troimille: Otherwise, what are we left with?
MaleBoomer: And if there is no "vision"
eating me alive??
Binarby: I meant state of being
Binarby: being a teacher, husband, wife etc.
Troimille: SoulMan911, right-- everyone goes around
talking about "just
bein' theirsefs", but
what
Troimille: IS myself?
Troimille: Binarby, I see,
but that is just because we are sloppy with
words, especially in the
Troimille: English language.
SoulMan911: ahh that would be the adventure within
Binarby: :)
Troimille: MaleBoomer, what
is it that you wish, ultimately? If you are
satisfied, there is not much
Troimille: you have to do, right?
Binarby: I keep saying to myself. . ."Is this it. . .is this all there is?"
I know there is more. .
Binarby: that is why I am here
MaleBoomer: I may not be satisfied but to say it is a
burning, passionate,
eating me alive vision is too
SoulMan911: there is always more ...just keep looking ...
MaleBoomer: strong a sensation for me
Troimille: Binarby, for me,
it's always been "This had better NOT be all
that there is, for Pete's
Troimille: sake!"
Binarby: agreed
OneTernura: LOL
Lightbr8: LOL
Tanajtras: Really
Troimille: MaleBoomer,
where did you think Tantra would take you? Did you
wish for passion,
Troimille: fulfillment, expression of your inner
self? What?
Troimille: Did you just want some nice touchy-feelies, and then forget about
anything deeper?
MaleBoomer: Mostly to understand the philosophy to
see what I might draw
from
Troimille: MaleBoomer,
sounds nice n' safe. :)
MaleBoomer: Fair point Troi
Troimille: OK, I'll go on a bit more...
Troimille: We all seem to agree that freedom means
responsibility, but we
think of responsibility in
Troimille: terms of our imprinting, our
indoctrinations, don't we? What
could it mean to be
Troimille: re*sponsible for
my entire creation-- everything that I
experience, every way that "people"
Troimille: react to me, everything that I have ever
felt?
Troimille: Even responsible for my own birth -- what
would it mean that "I
am creating my whole
Troimille: world right this moment, out of my
thoughts, my attitudes, my
feelings-- every word that I
Troimille: utter, every thought that I indulge.
Troimille: And especially all the baggage that I am
dragging along with me--
unrequited "love", what
Troimille: everybody "owes" me, all my
shames and guilts, what I "need",
everything I am obsessed
Troimille: with.
SoulMan911: dark territory....
Tanajtras: Freedom is the expression of the reality
in front of me.
Lightbr8: I believe that...but I feel there is a purpose to my journey
Troimille: SoulMan911, do you think it is possible
for us to Know and
realize our selves without
Troimille: penetrating the darkness?
Troimille: Lightbr8, yes, we'll be getting to that, I
assure you. :)
Lightbr8: Okay dokay
SoulMan911: of course not ..but one must prepare to
understand that nature
Troimille: SoulMan911, by doing what sorts of things?
SoulMan911: well for one we all do consist of a light and dark side
SoulMan911: our instinct for survival
Troimille: SoulMan911, I've found that I must give up
my "instinct for
survival" in order to stop
Troimille: dying-- see why?
SoulMan911: well I would think it better to harness that instinct
Troimille: I refuse to say I consist of "a dark
and a light side", like a
Thanksgiving turkey! I am
Troimille: here to penetrate light into all my
shadows.
Tanajtras: Or see the darkness as it is and allow the
light to come forth
Troimille: SoulMan911, in our "survival instinct",
we go berserk protecting
"territory", competing with
Troimille: each other, judging and comparing,
defending, attacking and
stressing out. Those are all
Troimille: killers to me.
Troimille: Tanajtras, nice
way to put it.
Tanajtras: ;~)
Binarby: only in the darkness can the light have a
definition for they are
the same
Troimille: Binarby, that is
true, of course, but we mustn't use it for an
excuse, right?
SoulMan911: yet it is what we are ...how do you free yourself from what is
Binarby: excuse me. . . :)
Troimille: SoulMan911, we are getting to that
presently...
Troimille: OK, continuing...
Troimille: What a huge responsibility! I am now
responsible for
entertaining only thoughts
Troimille: of love and harmony, uttering only words
of faith and
encouragement,
Troimille: performing acts only of grace and beauty!
Troimille: For this is the creation of my
"next" world-- I am now writing
the laws of my
Troimille: personal universe. I am the judge, jury
and executioner of my
whole, own
Troimille: universe, and
everybody and all events respond exactly to what I
create here,
Troimille: what I express here.
Troimille: If I say, "I am confused", that
is the law. If I deny a shame,
then that creates a
Troimille: darkness in my created world. If I lie or
compromise on my vision
or integrity,
Troimille: that is an unreparable
rent in the fabric of my creation. As
soon as I've
Troimille: corrupted the fabric of creation, it is
headed for the junk heap.
Troimille: (How's that so far?)
SoulMan911: and what is the focal point to avoid getting corrupted
.....in
this thought created universe
Troimille: SoulMan911, it's not about "getting
corrupted" or "not getting
corrupted"-- it's to BE
Troimille: the law of the universe, to command each
our own stream of
emanations, so to speak.
LadyWolffe: ;) I'd love to live in that world
Troimille: LadyWolffe, I
totally INSIST on living in that world!
TantraMom: intentionally being ?
Troimille: ... with the whole of all that I am. :)
Troimille: Right, Lynne-- totally intentional. That's
why I was talking
about putting the whole
Troimille: thing "on manual", remember?
TantraMom: yes
LadyWolffe: then I shall too....... ;) ....this world
is too unkind for me
MaleBoomer: That requires a stamina and intensity
though every day doesn't
it Troi?
LadyWolffe: unfortunately there are other people to
deal with day to day
Troimille: LadyWolffe,
there can be no such thing as some external world
outside of my control which
Troimille: can be unkind to me, even though I
"suffer". See why?
SoulMan911: isn’t the purpose to make this a better place ...not to hide from
it
LadyWolffe: we cant just sit
on a mountain top and mediate contentedly.....
Troimille: MaleBoomer, yes, that is called Power, Being, Self-realized
mastery.
Lightbr8: But if we create our own reality...those people don't effect
us...a matter of perception
LadyWolffe: where can we learn such things Troi?
TantraMom: well said
Troimille: SoulMan911, there is no "this
place"-- we are always creating the
world, so it always
Troimille: reflects our combined attitude.
Troimille: LadyWolffe, we
can make every moment a meditation of beauty, even
in intense activity.
SoulMan911: exactly ....combined attitude ....
TantraMom: has something to do with being prepared /
flexible / open?
Troimille: Lightbr8, everyone affects us even more--
that's why it is
crucial for us each to hold
Troimille: harmony and integrity.
Binarby: "I am both he projector and the
perceiver." a wise man told me
that once
Troimille: TantraMom,
exactly so.
SoulMan911: to understand each others nature and to enlighten each other
Troimille: Binarby, yes--
or put another way, a "self-reflexive hologram" of
sentiency.
Binarby: :)
Troimille: OK, I have one more paragraph that wraps
this whole idea up for
us, and then we can talk...
Troimille: So then, what is the ultimate healing at
this dawn of
re*creation, this renewal?
Troimille: It is *this* moment *now*-- I am again
starting from the very
beginning of
Troimille: creation! Right here/now I have my chance
to begin everything
all over, with
Troimille: no marks against me, no debts, no history.
Troimille: Not by "doing" something, but by
invoking my divine prerogative!
My hand is
Troimille: the hand of God, mine eyes are the eyes of
God, my breath is the
breath of God.
Troimille: I am Love, I am joy, I am perfect health
and justice, I am
unstoppable
Troimille: abundance, passion and beauty! Any questions? :)
Troimille: :D
TantraMom: like motherhood...nurturing and respectful
Troimille: (I know, this kind of talk always has
sounded ungrounded to me
before-- but it is an
Troimille: absolute fact on some level of intensity!)
Tanajtras: And if you do
ground it, it is the reality
MaleBoomer: I do see what you are saying Troi. The challenge is the internal
fortitude to rise to it
Troimille: TantraMom, you
are right-- we are constantly feeding our children
what they
LadyWolffe: Tan....how do you ground this?
TantraMom: oh yes...commands rather than choices
Tanajtras: How would one ground themselves?
Troimille: MaleBoomer, that
takes intensity, devotion, ecstatic bliss, even
"madness". :)
SoulMan911: by believing it
Troimille: SoulMan911, we believe all kinds of
garbage, don't we? What makes
this different?
TantraMom: believing in magic
Troimille: I don't "believe"-- I insist!
Binarby: "reality sandwiches served at this
child's sanity suppers"
MaleBoomer: The first two I understand Troi, but I thought Ecstatic Bliss
was the result not a requirement
SoulMan911: nothing ....id rather be mad with love
than sane with resentment
Troimille: MaleBoomer,
turns out to be both! :)
TantraMom: yes!!
TantraMom: madness works
LadyWolffe: me too Soul
MaleBoomer: And the "madness" Troi, I don't see that in myself
LadyWolffe: any day
Troimille: SoulMan911, right on, Dude! Gimme ten!
SoulMan911: 10...baby
Troimille: MaleBoomer, if
you follow the path of bliss and self-realization,
you'll meet the Dark
Troimille: with the Light, and the oceans will boil!
LadyWolffe: hehehe.....I
must be at the right place then......
Troimille: You hot now, Nancy?
MaleBoomer: Well I have experienced conflict as I
journey this path but
boiling oceans, hmmmm
LadyWolffe: uncomfortably yes
LadyWolffe: mine are boiling....but I find I’m
feeling some kind of peace
inside
LadyWolffe: this too shall pass......
Alisnntrnt: just wait Norm!!
Troimille:
ventilation.
LadyWolffe: redirecting me
LadyWolffe: thank you Troi
MaleBoomer: What do you mean Alis?
Troimille:
the gift of Power then.
Alisnntrnt: it will boil for you
LadyWolffe: something isn’t letting me wait
anyway......its one thing/man
after another
MaleBoomer: Ahhh, but only
if I don't let my mind control it. A real problem
there
Troimille: MaleBoomer, we
all have that problem-- that's why we have
practices and disciplines, you
Troimille: know. :)
Troimille: ... and it is why we have bliss and gifts
of Power.
MaleBoomer: Right those things I don't do - practices
and disciplines LOL
Troimille: If the mind tried to contain this, it
would be howling with the
agony.
Troimille: But the "mind" (ego) protects
itself from this, even if it means
the death of the unit.
Esnshl4me: and where do you contain this, Troi?
MaleBoomer: Troi you are so
right
Troimille: Esnshl4me, in the perfected Body.
Tanajtras: The whole as it is.
Troimille: ... and the work toward containing ecstasy
is what builds the
perfected body. :)
Troimille: Bear in mind, "containing"
doesn't mean squishing it, or
deforming it, or cookie
Troimille: cutting, right?
Troimille: You bet, Andrew-- the Mystery.
Esnshl4me: how could one squish, deform?
Tanajtras: by allowing yourself to not be who you are meant to be
Troimille: Esnshl4me, we "understand"
everything by pounding them into our
set entrainments, our
Troimille: categories-- we slap convenient labels on
anything outside of our
rational formulations.
Esnshl4me: gotcha
Tanajtras: Humankind has not woven the web of life.
Troimille: Remember I talked about the "formatory apparatus" in a previous
session?
Tanajtras: We are but one thread within it.
Tanajtras: Whatever we do to the web, we do to
ourselves.
Tanajtras: All things are bound together.
Tanajtras: All things connect.
Tanajtras: Chief Seattle
Troimille: MaleBoomer, it's
a quandary-- it takes power to get Power.
MaleBoomer: So I understand A tough cycle
Troimille: MaleBoomer, it's
just a matter of what we insist upon-- that's
what I was talking to
Troimille: you about before,
remember?
MaleBoomer: Yes and that takes all that you mentioned
intensity devotion
MaleBoomer: Not sure the "pain" of a
content life has reached the boiling
point yet though
Troimille: MaleBoomer, you
keep saying you don't feel intensity or conflict,
but are you content
Troimille: to live some normal life and then die like
the others?
MaleBoomer: I am not sure I look at it that way Troi Don't sense "the
others"
Troimille: MaleBoomer, do
you sense your Self?
MaleBoomer: Probably not as much as I could or should
Troimille: MaleBoomer,
should for whose reason? Are you comparing your
self-realization to
Troimille: somebody else's?
MaleBoomer: That has been an issue for sure.
Comparing to those who have
experienced Tantra for real
Troimille: MaleBoomer, do
you wish for what you believe they have attained?
Why?
Alisnntrnt: what does 'for real' mean to you Norm?
MaleBoomer: So many questions... Yes but not sure why
The physical
intensity and ecstasy in the mind
Troimille: Well, dear ones-- I feel complete, unless
you have any last
questions or comments-- please
Troimille: remember the homework every day. :)
Troimille: Good comments tonight-- thank you all. :D
Alisnntrnt: thanks for sharing tonight
all.....Namaste'
>>