Tantric Forum Log from
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Speaker: Troimille (that’s me!)
“The Current of Love” #8 of 10
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Troimille: Good evening, friends.
Troimille: First of all, I hope everybody will be
doing homework assignment
#3: Make room in your
Troimille: Mind and in your Heart for the Presence of
Grace; invite
nurture and
Troimille: cherish
encounter being totally
Troimille: new and thrilling; let your mouth speak
only truth and beauty,
let your hands touch
Troimille: only with caring and love, let every act
be one of k'ung fu and
mitzvah.
Troimille: Does that make sense to anybody?
AAmick4650: yes
TizSissy00: sure
Alisnntrnt: yes Barry, it does
Fotoman35: yes
Troimille: Ok, show me that you know what k'ung fu and mitzvah mean here. :)
TizSissy00: a meritorious or charitable act-mitzvah
Troimille: TizSissy00, right on!
TizSissy00: :)
Troimille: You probably realize that, by K'ung fu, I'm not talking about
self-defense, right?
AAmick4650: yes LOL
TizSissy00: yes
Troimille: What then?
AAmick4650: The path to Divine Unity?
Troimille: AA, it could be, but why so?
TizSissy00: skill?
AAmick4650: I am not sure Barry.
Troimille: TizSissy00, you're getting warmer...
Troimille: "K'ung
fu" = "hard work done by a person over time"
Troimille: Therefore, it means something with our
persistent intent in it.
AAmick4650: like meditation?
Troimille: Meditation is not an action, but a
preparation. Can you all
think of something you've been
Troimille: doing that you can say has your k'ung fu?
AAmick4650: raising great children?
TizSissy00: my profession
TizSissy00: my kids
Troimille: TizSissy00, closer-- but I think it needs
to be something
specific, more concrete.
Troimille: For example, you
can make a great cup of coffee, or take a walk
with k'ung fu.
Troimille: You can love with k'ung
fu.
Troimille: This assignment should be done every hour
of every day-- does
that fit into everyone's
Troimille: schedule?
Tamerri: beautiful Barry and quite a challenge
Troimille: Tamerri, and a
blessing, no? You're clear on what k'ung fu and
mitzvah mean here?
Tamerri: yes a blessing for sure and one which will
add to one's spiritual
growth
Troimille: Ok, let's move on. Tonight's programme is: Sharing love
wholeheartedly, innocently,
Troimille: sincerely, totally in the moment of the
Present, with no masks,
no holdbacks, no
Troimille: reasons, excuses, explanations or
expectations, but only total
commitment to
Troimille: joy, ecstatic union, brilliance and
fulfillment.
Troimille: -- That doesn't sound too hard, does it?
:)
Troimille: Go right ahead and speak up... :)
Tamerri: not at all Barry but one must be committed
AAmick4650: No not hard- but can you expect everyone to be in this place ?
Troimille: Tamerri, where
does such commitment come from?
Troimille: AA, nope-- just a few.
AAmick4650: good
AAmick4650: :>)
Tamerri: to experience joy and fulfillment one must
open self to what ever
comes
Alisnntrnt: commitment comes from intention for me,
it comes from my intent
Troimille: AA, which are you-- one of the many, or of
the few (the Marines?)
Tamerri: commitment to study and to experience
without fear
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, do
you always have it?
AAmick4650: Definitely one of the few
AAmick4650: it's part of me always
Troimille: Tamerri, then
what do I do when I am afraid?
AAmick4650: a God given..
Alisnntrnt: not sure Barry...sometimes I have to
nudge myself to do it...but
I think the intent is
Alisnntrnt: always there
Tamerri: you are not willing to let go of
restrictions Barry
Tamerri: u are limiting yourself by fear
Troimille: AA, God doesn't make us want
transformation-- otherwise, wouldn't
everybody?
Troimille: Tamerri, sounds
like a judgment. What do YOU do when afraid or
stuck?
AAmick4650: I think everyone has the potential to transform- most wait until
they are on their death bed
Troimille: AA, if then at all, eh? But does it do any
good to wait till
Death's door?
AAmick4650: yes anything is good
AAmick4650: not great but ok
Troimille: One thing that's showing up, my friends,
is that we go out of our
way to congratulate
Troimille: ourselves that we are somehow 'on our
path", somehow "doing it
right", or that "God is
Troimille: giving it to us", or something. Where
is Will in all this?
Thottful: will involves the
courage to change the things we can,
Troimille: I'd like to offer one possible definition
of Will: To take full
and utter, permanent
Troimille: responsibility for each and every thought,
word and action of my
Entire Self.
Alisnntrnt: isn't Will in our intent?
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, yes,
but it doesn't have a capital W until we are
whole, fully self-aware.
AAmick4650: centered?
AAmick4650: balanced
Troimille: AA, yes, of course.
Troimille: ... and much more too. :)
Troimille: We keep saying that we want better relationships,
better sex,
more clarity and energy,
Troimille: more vitality and personal power, but how
far are we willing to
dig down and pull all that
Troimille: out? Do we each have the backbone to put
up and shut up?
Troimille: Am I willing to utterly surrender control
to that magnificence
that is the Heart of my
Troimille: Being, right this instant? Would you
really want to be
ecstasy-filled on a continuous
Troimille: basis, like the best orgasm you ever had,
but persistent,
expanded, all-encompassing?
Troimille: Otherwise, what is it that we've been
bleating and whining for?
Could there even be any
Troimille: power or will without full and constant
commitment from each of
us? We say you want
Troimille: to have transformation, love, even
ascension and immortality, but
we somehow expect
Troimille: that to come to us from outside, without
any particular effort on
our parts, so we've given
Troimille: our power away to government, to church,
to our jobs, to family,
to the opposite sex,
Troimille: and to our children.
Troimille: -- can anybody relate to that, so far?
E3kelly: yes
Alisnntrnt: yes Barry
Troimille: Yesses are nice,
but I was hoping for questions or comments. :)
E3kelly: I was thinking about giving away power to family and
E3kelly: especially children. That rings a bell for me.
Troimille: Right, E3, and what about our parents? Do
we ever get free of
them and their opinions of
Troimille: us?
E3kelly: 3k, not even when they are not there any longer...It's
E3kelly: difficult to untangle oneself from their beliefs and judgments.
Troimille: E3kelly, in my mystical work, I've been
finding that I'm actually
*made up* out of my long-
Troimille: dead parents!
AAmick4650: I try to be Free and Unlimited in all my beliefs.
Troimille: AA, how much do you succeed at that?
AAmick4650: I think very well
Troimille: AA, what kinds of self-study practices are
you trying?
AAmick4650: Paramhansa Yogananda-
Kriya Yoga and the 25 Doors to meditation
and the Jewel In the Lotus
Troimille: AA, those are good-- I took SRF lessons 40
years ago.
AAmick4650: Great:>)
Troimille: Any questions now, or ready to continue?
Alisnntrnt: Barry, I think our make up goes beyond
our parents
Troimille: What else, Mary?
Alisnntrnt: to include peers and teachers, other
authority figures
Alisnntrnt: although family is primary
Troimille: Mary, do you distinguish between what we
are, and what we've
taken on as a paint job?
AAmick4650: isn’t the only "authority" GOD?
Alisnntrnt: Barry, I feel I am learning to do just
that
Troimille: AA, hallelujah! And then
what? Should we exercise no
self-authority then?
E3kelly: If we are made up of parental and outside influences,
E3kelly: where does the self factor in?
AAmick4650: I believe if we pray- meditate the answers are with-in. We must
be patient
Troimille: ... and then, just who is this
"God" person, that has the final
say on my
Troimille: condition? Is it an old man with a long
beard on a cloud, or
somehow part of my
Troimille: Being?
Alisnntrnt: now, for me E3
AAmick4650: Its whatever or whomever
Troimille: E3, any ideas?
E3kelly: 3K I used to think it was an old guy at the top of the stairs..
E3kelly: now I think that it is within...but I am still learning.
Troimille: Ok, let's look at some more of the lesson:
Admit it-- don't you
sort of think of your
Troimille: children, or maybe your creative efforts,
as being the agent of
your supposed
Troimille: "immortality", that you'll be
remembered? Even if you *were*
Gandhi or
Troimille: Alexander or Shakespeare or Einstein or
Cleopatra, even they are
but dust now,
Troimille: aren't they?
AAmick4650: Yes and No.
Troimille: And then we'll talk about how
"we" will discover the secrets of
the universe, or "they"
Troimille: have invented such-and-such a cure (for a
disease that "they"
gave us in the first place),
Troimille: just like "we" won the Super
Bowl, "we" are the chosen people,
"we" are "evolving", ad
Troimille: nauseum.
Troimille: When past civilizations had
"evolved" to where ours is now, they
were well on their way
Troimille: to their demise and disintegration. Their
leaders were corrupt,
they put more attention
Troimille: into gladiatorials
than into social justice, they allowed class
differences to divide them,
Troimille: and they relied more and more on
hide-bound laws than on the
discernment of living
Troimille: seers.
AAmick4650: Kind of like
Thottful: hmmm sounds familiar...
Troimille: AA, how so?
AAmick4650: Well I think I am more like
Troimille: -- I really expect an argument about these
ideas-- don't save
them up-- let's hear them. :)
AAmick4650: I am not informed enough to argue- yet! LOL
AAmick4650: I am just here to learn
E3kelly: 3k, I'm new to all this...and shy to boot! I was planning on
E3kelly: hiding over in the corner tonight!
Alisnntrnt: I don't have an argument with this Barry
Troimille: -- Can you accept that we have no real
will or self-authority,
that we are fixated by our
Troimille: "education" to see only what we
are supposed to, to think only
"correct" thoughts?
AAmick4650: NO
E3kelly: no
Troimille: AA, that's what I like to see--
conviction! :)
AAmick4650: :>)
Troimille: Continuing:...
Troimille: My point is that it is just ourselves, as
individuals, who can
achieve our own heart's
Troimille: desire, not society, community, parents,
"god" or any external
structure. At the same
Troimille: time, it is not our old ego that can
achieve our fondest dreams,
not the one who judges
Troimille: and compares and condemns, itself most
harshly of all. Then what
is left in us after that?
Troimille: Is there anything left of our innocence or
wonder or life force,
or was that all lost in our
Troimille: "educations" and acculturation?
Aren't we comfortable in our
"control", our "knowledge"
Troimille: and our "feelings"? We've got
the world sorted out, well enough
for getting along,
Troimille: anyway. Why rock the boat? We've got our
life down to a set of
habits that "work" so
Troimille: why would I want to give that up?
Troimille: -- Any reasons?
AAmick4650: In order to grow a person has to have no fear and be willing to
go beyond our limits
E3kelly: I want to rock the boat. I am imprisoned by those very habits
E3kelly: that work for me..
E3kelly: by societal and personal expectations.
AAmick4650: Do you think the "devil' is man made?
Troimille: AA, what does it take to go beyond our
comfort zones?
AAmick4650: honestly?
Troimille: AA, I've never run across any
"devil" save my own denied
feelings.
AAmick4650: I'd say it's Will
Tamerri: to venture into the unknown and stretch ourselves
there
Troimille: ... so then, what is Will? Where do I get
some?
Troimille: Tamerri, even if
terrified?
Tamerri: lol Barry
AAmick4650: it's inside you
E3kelly: 3k, I was just thinking about asking that...where and how?
AAmick4650: you have to find it
Tamerri: yes otherwise we don't grow
Troimille: E3kelly, actually, I am getting to that--
that's why I'm raising
the issues. :)
Troimille: Ready to continue?
AAmick4650: yep
Tamerri: we must learn to overcome obstacles or fears
Troimille: ... why would I want to give that up?
Because it is lifeless,
flat, stagnant, joyless,
Troimille: dull, mean, vile, isolating, stupid, vain
and meaningless; it
leads nowhere but to
Troimille: death, and that after a lifetime as brief
as it was frustrating.
When we are first in
Troimille: love, or have discovered something
wonderful to share, we may
enjoy a moment
Troimille: outside of the general morass, but we
never know what we did to
deserve that
Troimille: moment, nor how to repeat it or expand it
or extend it; and then
we still die, as
Troimille: ignobly as stray dogs.
Troimille: But you will not convince anyone who is at
all comfortable, even
if their "comfort" is just
Troimille: the reliability of threadbare habits. No,
sorry-- what I am
offering here is only for those
Troimille: who can no longer stand any of it, who are
retching from the lies
and delusions that our
Troimille: whole existence has been built upon, and
who are hungry and
thirsty. Such people may
Troimille: even have become addicts or derelicts--
they no longer fit into
the standard mold, and
Troimille: the cardboard feast that the old life
serves up cannot ease their
increasing emptiness.
Troimille: -- Questions?
AAmick4650: Barry you like to get reactions right?
Tamerri: Barry are u saying that those addicted are
reaching out but are
losing their way
Tamerri: as they don't have the path or process to
move beyond what they
view as mundane life?
Troimille: AA, no, not "reactions", but
thoughtful discourse.
AAmick4650: OK lets start with the death thing
Troimille: Tamerri, try
re-reading it one more time, ok?
Tamerri: ok
AAmick4650: Death is just a moving forward small space in time that we
should be happy to accept
E3kelly: 3k, stifling false life results in addiction?
Troimille: AA, why "should"? Who says so?
Troimille: E3, that's not really what I'm saying. :)
AAmick4650: I have always believed in life and death and life and death
AAmick4650: endless
E3kelly: ok I'll try again...
Troimille: AA, seems
logical. :)
AAmick4650: What I want to do in this lifetime is push myself to a higher
level
AAmick4650: I am jut sorry I started at 43 instead of 20
Troimille: AA, great! So do the rest of us in this
room, right everybody?
E3kelly: yes..
Alisnntrnt: yep
Troimille: (AA, actually, I started at age 7! :)
E3kelly: AAmick...I started later than that...
Troimille: E3, ready with your question yet?
Pnsy3: I think we all start when the time is right for us
E3kelly: 3k, not yet, but I agree with what you said.
Troimille: So, friends, this lesson sticks in the
craw, but it seems like we
mostly agree, right?
E3kelly: 3k, exactly!
Troimille: Continuing: ...
Troimille: Does that describe you? This is wonderful,
because now, in your
emptiness, there is
Troimille: room for something completely different,
something
indescribable-- the Mystery of
Troimille: Existence, the Miraculous. That which
shows up only when we've
given up, or had torn
Troimille: away from us all the attractions of the
old life, all the
time-killers, the enticements.
Troimille: Does this mean that we must give up sex or
career or
relationships or satisfactions of
Troimille: accomplishment? Absolutely not! It means
rather that we bring a
whole new dimension
Troimille: to all these actions of our lives, the
dimension of Conscious
Passion, k'ung fu, innocent
Troimille: joy and devotion to something much larger
than the old idea of
self.
Troimille: It means being run completely by the Heart
rather than by
"survival" terrors, going always
Troimille: toward our vision rather than away from all
the demons that
chase us throughout our
Troimille: feeble existence.
Troimille: (We're almost at the exciting climax ...
any questions first? )
AAmick4650: I am glad you didn’t use the word "surrender"
Gyabs1: I have a question
Troimille: Why, Ann? I frequently use that word.
Troimille: Gyabs1, go right ahead... :)
AAmick4650: I just don't need nor like that word
Gyabs1: what would you think of someone that doesn't believe in the
"Mystery
of Existence" but just
Gyabs1: believes "he is"
Troimille: Gyabs1, with no Mystery? No wonderment? No
potential for ultimate
possibilities?
Troimille: ... What would it mean, to "just
be"?
Gyabs1: he just believes "he is"
AAmick4650: I think the hardest thing for a man let go of his ego.
Gyabs1: do you see ego in that?
Troimille: Gyabs1, I haven't the slightest idea-- to
me it means there is
nothing to discuss,
Troimille: nowhere to go, no curiosity about what
we're doing here, no?
Troimille: Ann, which part of us is the ego? Who lets
go of it?
E3kelly: 3k, what do you mean by "survival terrors"?
Gyabs1: I was curious if there was an opinion in the room
AAmick4650: it takes years sometimes
AAmick4650: or even lifetimes it really doesn’t matter
Troimille: E3kelly, the terror of discovering what we
really are, what
really runs us, how close to the
Troimille: brink we really are...
Pnsy3: well, Gyabs perhaps if you explain yourself a
bit more...
E3kelly: 3k, that sounds familiar...
Troimille: Ok, any comments before my amazing
conclusion?
AAmick4650: Speak to me in full of thy power and of thy glory, for I am never
tired , never, of hearing
AAmick4650: thy words of Life
Troimille: Ann, why thank you! :)
AAmick4650: I like that don’t you?
Troimille: (Oh, I thought you were referring to my
humble self. :)
AAmick4650: it's from the Bhagavad Gita
AAmick4650: LOL
Troimille: Ok, here's the final lap around the
track...
Troimille: When we are run by our Heart, our rags are
embroidered silk, our
shopping cart is a
Troimille: royal chariot, squirrels and stray cats
are our loyal court--
just like Cinderella or Snow
Troimille: White. Are we really considering turning
our lives into faerie
tales, and living by
Troimille: mythological parables?
Troimille: I submit that this is exactly what we have
been doing all along,
just that the myths and
Troimille: fairy tales we grew up with are those of
misery and futility.
All I'm asking of you is to
Troimille: change your mythology, and your energy
level, and your focus, and
utterly renounce your
Troimille: pain and separation.
Troimille: Is that too much to ask? And then taking
up the mantle of the
highest purpose of
Troimille: Humanity-- being the emissary of the
Divine Order on the Earth,
Lord over all the beasts
Troimille: of the field, starting with your self, of
course.
AAmick4650:
E3kelly: yes!
Troimille: Oh, Ann-- do you
really truly like that?
AAmick4650: yep
Troimille: Ok, the floor is open for discussion now.
:)
Troimille: Well, friends-- am
I asking for something completely impractical?
E3kelly: 3k, what , you want commitment here? LOL!
SoulMan911: Renounce your pain...sounds like something I need to do ..where
to begin?
Troimille: E3, if not who, what? If
not when, where? (To paraphrase Dr.
King)
Troimille: SoulMan911, right here, right now! Right?
Alisnntrnt: with forgiveness Soul
SoulMan911: these relationships become so superficial ...heart on sleeve
kind of thing ...
Troimille: SoulMan911, I think heart-on-sleeve is the
raw, passionate, tender, no?
SoulMan911: yes but still can be very painful ...and misunderstood
Troimille: SoulMan911, raw feeling can never be
misunderstood-- it just IS,
right?
SoulMan911: maybe I am the one who expects as much as I can give ....would
love it to be a two way thing
Troimille: SoulMan911, I believe it ALWAYS is-- we get
not so much what we
ASK for, but what we
Troimille:
E3kelly: 3k, and when we change who we are, we change what we receive.
SoulMan911: seems right but still ...feels wrong..maybe just inner issues to
still deal with
Alisnntrnt: was just going to ask that E3
Troimille: E3kelly, CAN we change who we
what-we-are, or have we
Troimille: dissipated most of our Power?
E3kelly: yes, we can, it is a slow process and hard work, but I can
E3kelly: see some results.
Alisnntrnt: we can change our perception
Troimille: My attitude is that my task is merely to
round up All-that-I-am,
and that is the Crown of
Troimille: Being.
SoulMan911: tell me Troimille ...do you ever get
angry or hurt ..?
Troimille: SoulMan911, all the time! I am diagnosed
with anxiety disorder.
:)
SoulMan911: understood ...so then do you think your anger could be well
founded?
Troimille: SoulMan911, never
founded at all, just identification and
tape-loops, which I still with my
Troimille: meditational practices.
Alisnntrnt: feelings are genuine,
probs, it's our perception of it
Alisnntrnt: what/how we have been taught
Troimille: Alisnntrnt, most
of what we think we "feel' is completely bogus--
our *feelings* are pure
Troimille: energy, with no agenda at all.
SoulMan911: well I try to change my perception and still come up with hurt
and disappointment ...
Troimille: SoulMan911, if you are silent inside, and
centered, there could
be no "hurt" or
Troimille: "disappointment", see why?
E3kelly: 3k, I've had that happen on a limited scale...enough to keep
E3kelly: me trying though.
SoulMan911: completely misunderstood ...the more I try to explain my
feelings the more I confused things
Troimille: E3kelly, good point. We keep trying, and
the grace and power
sneak up on us, right?
Troimille: SoulMan911, because they are not *your
feelings*, but merely
*your story*! See the diff?
E3kelly: 3k, and when it does, it is wonderful! ;-)
Troimille: Amen!
Troimille: Ok, friends-- please continue practicing
the homework till we meet
again in two weeks...
E3kelly: homework?
AAmick4650: what is our homework Barry?
Troimille: Homework #3, to be done every hour of
every day:
Troimille: Make room in your Mind and in your Heart
for the Presence of
Grace; invite
Troimille:
wonderment with each
Troimille: encounter being totally new and thrilling;
let your mouth speak
only truth and
Troimille: beauty, let your hands touch only with
caring and love, let every
act be one of k'ung
Troimille: fu and mitzvah.
AAmick4650: that’s not work?
AAmick4650: that’s life
Troimille: Nope-- it's intentional work.
Alisnntrnt: while I have the chance, I’d like to
thank all of you for
sharing tonight
AAmick4650: Thanks Barry:>)
Alisnntrnt: thank you Barry
AAmick4650: Namaste'
SoulMan911: goodnight Troimille..peace
everyone ..have a good evening
Troimille: ::::::: bows humbly ::::::::::
Alisnntrnt: Namaste' all :)